I don’t know if I have a lot to say about today’s comic, so if you want to vote for Theater Hopper at buzzComix while you’re waiting for me to conjure up some text, it would be much appreciated. We’re pretty much within striking distance of the number two spot. It would be pretty keen if we could snag it. Like yesterday’s incentive sketch, I’m really proud of today’s offering. I could easily see this design on a t-shirt, I’m that proud of it.
So what about today’s, extra-special Thursday comic? It would seem things are starting to come to a head, eh? Charlie seems to be everywhere Cami doesn’t want her to be. And is it possible she overheard her outburst in Wednesday’s comic? Seems like something is going to break pretty soon. You’ll have to come back tomorrow to see what!
I’m starting to have a lot of fun with the storyline now. Although at this point I kind of feel like I’ve been rushing them around like pawns on a chess table. It’s all been an exercise in moving the action into different locations before setting the stage for a big showdown. But first someone needs to say this so someone else can say this and everyone winds up here. Get the gist?
Really at a loss for words beyond that. It’s kind of late and I’m kind of feeling burned out right now. Think I’ll hit the hay.
IRONY IS NOT WITHOUT A SENSE OF HUMOR
January 21st, 2005 | by Tom(7 votes, average: 8.57 out of 10)
Five days of straight updates and where do I lead you? Right into the gaping maw of a cliffhanger! MU-HA-HA-HA-HA!
Everything that’s been going on this week has led up to this moment. The change of scenery. The carefully timed positioning. A culmination that pits Cami against Charlie in a situation where neither one can walk away from each other. There’s gonna be some CONFLICT RESOLUTION, kiddies. Next week, it’s goin’ DOWN!
All the way down… to Chinatown.
Okay, maybe not Chinatown. But they’re gonna clear the air. That’s what happens next, okay?
Hey, everyone! Thanks for voting for Theater Hopper at buzzComix yesterday when I asked so politely. You guys got us over the hump! We’re in the number two spot! We’re only about 30,000 votes away from The Order of the Stick, but I think we can close the gap!
Sheesh. The numbers that dude puts up. You’d think he had a small country voting for him!
Anyway, not much to report. Pretty thin weekend for new films and I’m pretty much caught up on all the Oscar-bait films released over the holiday.
I’ve been hearing good things about Assault on Precinct 13. Mostly, I think, because people are going in with pretty low expectations. But I doubt I’ll see this one in the theater. Action flicks just aren’t my thing, man.
Then, of course, there’s that whole Ethan Hawke problem. Specifically, I don’t like him. Or that rat fart across his face that he calls a goatee. Sorry. Just a personal preference.
I don’t really think I can top the “rat fart/goatee” comparison, so I’m gonna wrap things up there. I can walk away from this blog with a sense of accomplishment.
I know a lot of you are looking at this latest situation with Cami and Charlie and thinking to yourself “Why couldn’t they just use their cell phones to call for help?”
Well, hold your horses, smarty-pants! I’ll answer that question in a future strip!
In the meantime, I want to take this opportunity to remind everyone that in the telling of the story, I sometimes feel it appropriate to call on the mystical powers of “artistic license”. In other words, blurring the edges around reality a little bit to help progress the narrative.
Trust me, people. The only way I could force Cami and Charlie to confront one another was to stick them in a bathroom with a broken doorknob. YES, I know most movie theater bathrooms don’t have doorknobs. Hence, “artistic license”! See how that works?
Real quick note of movie business before I move on to site business. Does anyone know how the hell Are We There Yet? snagged the number one spot in the box office this weekend? Is Ice Cube REALLY that big of a draw? I don’t know, but any popularity points he racked up with those Barbershop movies have to be spent by now!
Sheesh, America. I mean, I know it was a slow week, but C’MON!…
Anyway, onto site business. I wanted to announce a cool little program I’m introducing that COULD put original Theater Hopper artwork into your hot little hands!
The concept is very simple. If you check The Walk of Fame and scroll down to the bottom of the page, you’ll see that I’ve posted a new desktop wallpaper as incentive for people who donate.
For the sake of argument, let’s say you’re very lazy and just want me to post the picture of the new wallpaper here. Well said:
As you can see, it’s a picture of Cami posed as Jennifer Garner from this month’s Elektra!
The situation is this: You stand a chance of WINNING THE ORIGINAL ARTWORK by giving money to Theater Hopper. Everyone who has given ANY money to Theater Hopper in the month of January will have their name thrown into a hat. One winner will be selected and they will be sent the original artwork, painstakingly drawn and finished with inks on a heavy-duty 11″ x 17″ piece of Bristol board – suitable for framing.
To be eligible for the drawing, donations are not the only method that will put your name in the raffle. Any purchases in the store will also open up the contest to you. Also, anyone who has advertised with the site will also be eligible.
I’m talking ALL forms of payment received by Theater Hopper — the payees are eligible.
Oh, and for those of you who may have bought something or donated to the site this month, don’t worry. This offer is retroactive, so you are currently in the running!
Multiple donations, store or advertising purchases are equivalent to ONE raffle ticket. So if you bought a shirt the first week of January then donated the last week of January, you would have TWO chances to win.
Basically the way I’m running things is by looking at my PayPal records for the month of January and writing down every name I see from January 1st to the 31st.
More succinct rules will be posted to a new page soon, but I wanted to make sure everyone knew about this right now since there is only a week left in the month. Y’see, I wanted to make sure there was artwork for January because this is something I plan on doing EVERY MONTH! So if you don’t win January’s raffle, you still have 11 chances left in the year to take home some ORIGINAL ARTWORK. At the end of the year, I plan on collecting all the color versions for a calendar or some kind of print retrospective for others to purchase. But the original artwork will be yours, all yours!
So anyway, that’s where things stand. If you want your chance to win, donate to the site, purchase something in the store, or buy advertising. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me!
I’ll preface today’s comic by saying “No, Cami doesn’t really have me ‘trained'”. Truthfully, she would probably resent the categorization if Theater Hopper were a work of non-fiction. But as it turns out, this little detail is for entertainment purposes only.
The point of this week in the story arc is to fill in any loopholes that might provide Cami and Charlie and easy escape from the women’s restroom. The cell phone doesn’t work and Tom is inept, so what’s left? Could Jimmy possibly be coming to save the day? Well, don’t count on it. You’ll see what I mean Friday.
I’m learning that one of the drawbacks to telling a larger story with a more dramatic bend is that people start to treat it like it’s really happening. As such, they start asking questions like “Why would the women’s bathroom go unchecked for two years? We thought Jimmy was so professional?” So now I find myself in the position of having to answer these questions before getting into the chewy center of the story. Y’know, the one where Charlie finally tells her secret for being back home.
The experience is teaching me a lot, but I can’t help but feel like this gauntlet I’m running is kind of like that episode of The Simpsons where all the nerds are grilling Xena: Warrior Princess star Lucy Lawless about the inconsistencies in her show.
“Um… Whenever you notice something like that, a wizard did it!”
“Uh, yes but…”
“WIZARD!”
The Academy Award nominations were announced yesterday and looking over the field of candidates, I can’t help but reflect that 2004 was not a particularly good year for movies. Frankly, I was surprised that The Aviator walked away with 11 nominations. But I suppose through the Academy’s filter of “ONLY EPICS SHALL WIN BIG AWARDS!!!” it’s not so surprising.
Sure, smaller films like Sideways and Vera Drake are up for Best Picture, but that feels like lip service to me. It’s just a way for the Academy to show that they’re not out of touch with smaller productions on independent cinema. A token gesture to prove they’re not completely out of touch. You know – kind of like the guy who’s been a hard core Def Leppard fan all his life, but buys then buys a White Stripes record in a feeble attempt to look cool. He doesn’t get it. He doesn’t understand it. But dammit, it’s in his record collection, so he must be onto something!
When it comes to the nominations, I usually pay less attention to who receives the accolade than who ∗didn’t∗. People really seemed to notice that neither Fahrenheit 9/11 nor The Passion of The Christ received major category nominations. They were probably two of the most successful and controversial films of the year. But I think it’s that controversy that kept them out of Oscar contention. The Academy isn’t the type of organization with the conviction to endorse anything controversial. They just want to huddle their membership into the Kodak Theater, pat themselves on the back for 4 hours and then drink ’til sunup.
Really, it’s probably moot – at least in F9/11’s case. I think Michael Moore ran himself out of contention by refusing to submit the film for Best Documentary or perhaps broadcasting it on television before December 31 (which neuters his eligibility in the Academy’s eyes) or some such nonsense.
When it comes to snubs, what I can’t understand is why Paul Giamatti wasn’t nominated for Best Actor, while his movie Sideways gets a Best Picture, Director and Writing nominations. It even racked up two Best Supporting Actor nods for Thomas Haden Church and Virginia Madsen.
Man, THAT’S a twist of the knife. The guy who played a half-retarded airplane mechanic in a lousy sitcom and the woman who starred not only in Candyman, but Highlander II: The Quickening are being recognized ahead of the man who has been recognized as one of the best character actors of the last 10 years. Then again, he DOES have Big Fat Liar on his resume…
Another snub I thought was noteworthy was the exclusion of The Polar Express from the Best Animated Feature Film category. Don’t get me wrong. I think the film looked horrible, saccharine and soulless. But despite its failings, the film WAS a technical achievement. Especially in regard to the motion capture technology director Robert Zemeckis probably advanced by five years with his work.
But to be bested by Shark Tale? Ouch! Don’t try to tell me that box office didn’t influence the Academy’s decision in that regard.
Any another thing, I’ve always harbored a little grudge against the Shrek franchise for stealing the very first Best Animated Film Oscar away from Monsters, Inc. in 2002. If Shrek 2 wins out over the VASTLY superior The Incredibles in 2005, then there is no justice in the world.
Some odds and ends…
What’s up with Alan Alda being nominated for Best Supporting Actor in The Aviator. Honestly, I saw nothing outstanding from the performance. Really nothing more noteworthy than what Alec Baldwin did with the same amount of screen time in the same movie.
I was pleased to see Natalie Portman and Clive Owen getting Best Supporting recognition for their work in Closer. I thought it was one of the best movies of the year. It was probably too mean-spirited or too much like a play for the Academy’s taste, but it’s nice to see actors who shined in their supporting roles be recognized over their lead actor contemporaries.
Very surprised to see Kate Winslet be nominated for Best Actress in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. She won’t win because the movie came out almost a year ago and most voters probably won’t remember it. But it’s a nice tip of the hat to another wondrous film from ’04.
Beyond that, I don’t know what more to say. I guess I need to study the nominations a little closer. I’m just pointing out the things that really set off alarms in my head.
What are your thoughts about the Academy Award nominations? Y’know, we’re talking about it in the THorum…
I think if I just… try… a little HARDER! – I could have gotten more panels and more text in today’s comic.
I don’t know where this recent influx of married humor is coming from. It’s kinda developing organically. I say roll with it!
You guys should really check out our latest sponsor – The Asylumantics. It’s a wonderfully illustrated comic about a bunch of mental patients and they recently updated their schedule to an aggressive (but satisfying!) 5 times a week!
By the by, why not vote for Theater Hopper at buzzComix too? It’s good for the soul.
Since there really aren’t any interesting movies coming out this weekend that I can talk about, I’m going to shift focus for a minute.
Way back in September when I embarked on the aforementioned large story arc about Jimmy losing his job, my good friend Joe Dunn – illustrator at Digital Pimp Online sent me this awesome artwork:
I clutched it to my chest and held it close for the longest time because I thought that I would use the artwork in book collecting the Jimmy arc that I would later sell on the site.
As I get further and further away from that period in the strip, the collected book feels less likely. So to make amends for my selfish sins, I wanted to share this artwork with the world. Frankly, it’s too good NOT to share.
Of course, the fact that Joe recently sent me another piece of fan art to commemorate Charlie’s introduction certainly pushed my hand to a degree:
What can I say about Joe’s talent that isn’t blatantly obvious? All I can say is that he draws my characters better than I could ever hope to. The real turn of the screw is that Joe’s versions are how I envision them in my head. I just can’t get my brain and my right hand to agree in that regard.
So many thanks to Joe Dunn for all his hard work and support. I appreciate it. Everyone needs to check out Digital Pimp Online right this very minute and soak up as much of Joe’s work as possible. You won’t regret it!
It’s amazing what one little apology can do to stop someone dead in their tracks, isn’t it? Now that Cami got the two little words she wanted from Charlie, have her defenses fallen? Will we learn the reason she’s back in town? Yes, we will! And sooner than later, I might add. Keep a close watch this week kids. We’re entering the third act!
Regrettably, I didn’t get a chance to see any of the movies that I wanted to see this weekend. So I suppose that means Sideways and Million Dollar Baby will have to wait for another day.
I can’t explain it. My Sunday was wide open. I didn’t even have chores to do. The weather was fair. No obstacles. I guess I was just plain lazy. But everyone needs a day where they don’t do anything, right? I just wish I hadn’t sat around watching all those back-to-back episodes of I Love the 90’s: Part Deux and The Surreal Life on VH1. My brain feels like mush.
I’m not sure if it’s all the time I’ve been spending indoors lately or if this is just a defense mechanism to fight of Seasonal Affective Disorder, but I’m getting the itch to redesign the site.
There are a lot of things about the site that I like and that are working well from the front end. On the back end, however, it’s a totally different story. Most of the changes involve me organizing files to they’re easier to locate when I want to make changes. Right now it’s like that ball of Christmas lights from National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation. It’s a little unwieldy.
Recognizing that what I want to do isn’t a face lift, but reconstructive surgery. I’m tempted to strike the design we have now in favor of something new. And as much as I feel that the site is mine and I can do with it whatever will satisfy me creatively, I have to admit that I’m curious as to what you guys think.
So my idea is this – a little market research. I want to know what you guys think, but I want to organize the feedback in some way. I’m looking for a good third party FREE survey organization that I can use to create a brief Q&A survey for the site. I’m interested in your thoughts on design just as much as I’m interested in our demographics and what monitor resolution you’re viewing the site at.
So if you have any in-roads to such a program or vendor, let me know. I’m interested in getting this off the ground pretty soon. It will help me determine if the sketches I have for the new site design will be worth bringing to digital fruition or not!
Thanks!
GUEST STRIP – THE BROS. PORTER
July 13th, 2005 | by Tom- Comics »
- Comics »
- Guest Strip
(4 votes, average: 4.25 out of 10)
My thanks to The Bros. Porter for this excellent guest strip that made me laugh out loud!
I don’t know about you, but I’m really digging his rendition of my characters. It’s like they put them on a diet! They’re so skinny!
Seriously, though. I really like the emotion they were able to inject into their faces. Lots of really cool, subtle stuff there. Kudos, fellas!
If you want to see more of the Porter’s talent on display, they have their own web comic titled What Happens Next and it’s a hoot. Again, really fun and bright cartoony style and some sharp writing. Keep your eyes on this one, gang!
As you are reading this, I am likely lugging boxes like a whipped mule from my new house into my old house. According to local sooth-sayers, temperatures should be in the mid to high 80’s today. Let’s just hope the humidity stays low. If you’re thinking of me at all today, pray for a cool breeze.
I know a lot of people who are going to the San Diego Comic Con this week and I am pretty jealous. Even if I weren’t moving, I doubt I would be able to go, though. I don’t sell enough t-shirts to afford a plane ticket and a hotel room on the other side of the country. But more power to those who can!
The nadir of my convention experience in 2005 will be the Wizard World convention in Chicago August 4 – 7. And even then I’m splitting the cost of a hotel room with Jared, Zach from Joe and Monkey and Mitch from Nothing Nice to Say. But they’re all good guys and I know they won’t rifle through any of my crap.
I’m really looking forward to Chicago this year because we reserved tables together with a TON of other, cool web comics on Artist Alley. We’re hoping our unified front will help bring a little extra attention to our genre. Strength in numbers, right?
What’s even more cool is that Joe from Digital Pimp Online has his booth right next to mine. So I can look over his shoulder the entire con and try to figure out how he got so damn good at drawing.
No word on which movie we’ll all see together (as has become our informal convention tradition) but it’ll probably be Dukes of Hazard, since that’s what opens that weekend.
That’s about it for now. Be sure to come back tomorrow for another guest strip!
If you’ve been visiting this site for the last four years (and bless you if you have), you might remember the storyline where I introduced Charlie as an additional female voice to the cast.
If you were REALLY paying attention, you might have remembered an exchange between Tom and Jimmy in the story line’s B-plot where Jimmy revealed something very personal about himself: He’s afraid to go into the women’s restroom.
I inserted that personal detail into that story line for a specific reason and with the intention of revisiting it in another story line sometime later.
Well, four years later, here we are.
It’s been a while since I’ve attempted a longer story line or made an effort to flesh out the characters a little more.
It’s kind of hard to flesh out Tom, Cami or Jared because they’re avatars for real people and I don’t want to dive into some kind of backstory inconsistent with their actual lives. It just causes confusion.
So Jimmy, Victor and Charlie become the tools that I experiment with and, in the process, you get to learn a little more about the background characters.
One of the reasons I wanted to tackle a longer story line again was because I’ve really been enjoying Questionable Content and Anders Loves Maria lately and, frankly, I’ve been jealous. Writing an engaging story is one of my weaker muscles. I have to flex it every now and again before it atrophies.
But probably the biggest reasons I wanted to give it another go is because I recently wrapped up work on Theater Hopper – Year Three.
The book covers my work from 2004 to 2005 and during that period I wrote both the “Jimmy Loses His Job” story line as well as “Meet Charlie.” That was a very successful period for me both in terms of the site’s popularity and my satisfaction artistically. So I’m going to see if I can’t try and put lightning in a bottle for a third time.
What can you expect from this story line? Well, obviously, we’ll explore the reasons why Jimmy is afraid of going into the women’s restroom. But the reasons why will shock you. In revealing his past, you’ll come to understand more clearly why he is the good-natured doormat he is today.
On that note I’d like to mention that Theater Hopper – Year Three is now available for pre-sale in the store. The book has not yet been published. To gauge demand, it is available for pre-sale until February 28. My goal is to have them printed up to take to the Emerald City Comicon in the first week of April. So if you order a book today, you can expect to see it by then.
As I mentioned before, the book has two of our my most prominent story lines as part of its collection of nearly 150 strips. Every comic includes brand new commentary that explores things behind-the-scenes.
The book also features 139 original sketches – collected here for the first time – and a forward from Joe Dunn of Joe Loves Crappy Movies.
I’ve prepared a 10-page preview of the book that will give you an idea of how the comics and commentary are laid out along with the front and back cover.
I am selling the book for $15.00, but if you are looking to save money, please consider bundling your purchase. Order and two books and receive $5.00 off the cover price. Order any three books and receive $7.50 off the cover price.
This book has been a long time coming and I’m pleased to finally offer it to everyone. I think it represents some of my best work and hope you enjoy it.
Here’s a comic!
Not sure what to say about today’s comic without delving into my anxiety about whether or not I’m dragging out the introduction too long or if the implication that Jimmy is afraid of girls… or is he? (tee, hee!) – might have run it’s course.
Maybe we should focus on that typo in the last panel, eh? Don’t worry. I’ll fix it when I get home.
See, this is what I do: Instead of letting the comic speak for itself, I feel like I have to explain it or position it for you guys in relation to the larger story. I’m never satisfied making a one or two-line quip about the punchline and walking away from the keyboard. I always feel like I owe you guys more than that in the blog, even when I’m shooting myself in the foot by over-explaining it.
I’m excited for Friday’s comic because it will signal the transition into “flashback mode.” We’ll get to hear from Jimmy first-hand what changed him in the girl’s bathroom and I plan on punctuating that transition with a great, big splash image. Single panel, fools! Glorious color! Let’s take the action outside the movie theater, shall we?
Not much more to talk about. This week hasn’t exactly been an improvement over last week. I don’t want to get into it because I don’t want to bore you with my problems. Fortunately, Cami is feeling better (she thanks you for your well-wishes), but, y’know… sometimes life just keeps handing you lemons.
Personally, I’m really looking forward to the crop of new releases this weekend. Push, He’s Just Not That Into You, Fanboys, Pink Panther 2, Coraline… I’d like to see all of these movies.
I don’t know if perhaps my taste in movies has atrophied from lack of nourishment in January, but you wouldn’t run into much resistance if you suggested any of these movies to me.
Push, in particular, I think looks fun even though it’s basically the 2009 version of Jumper.
Okay, the plot is contrived (People with special powers are hunted down to be turned into weapons!) but I like the execution of the powers on display. I also think Chris Evans is a pretty good actor and deserves a break. He can’t be Johnny Storm in those sub-par Fantastic Four movies forever!
So what about you? Is anyone else excited by this week’s releases? Making any plans to see one of the above films? Which one looks best to you, if any? Leave your comments and we’ll discuss it!
I think I’m starting to accept this “no punchline” thing. This is The End Game. Now you know that Jimmy and Charlie used to date, that they were engaged and that a random indiscretion (at no fault to Jimmy) appears to have torn them apart. The only scene that’s missing is the final confrontation in the ladies restroom. At this point, I think jokes are only going to slow us down. But hopefully I’ve established a mood going into the last arc of the story line.
So what else happened this weekend? Oh, it looks like the Oscars were on last night! Did you catch it?
Despite not having seen… most of the nominated films, I was really excited for this year’s Oscars. I don’t know why. And even though there weren’t a ton of surprises, I was still satisfied with the big show.
Some gut reactions:
I thought Hugh Jackman was perfectly serviceable for such an outside-the-box choice for host. He was somewhat needy, but certainly didn’t embarrass himself. That opening number brought down the house! He was working his ass off on that one.
How good was that little song and dance routine at the top of the show? I went from visions of Billy Crystal and thinking to myself “Ugh, a musical number.” to “Ha, ha! That was great! More musical numbers!”
Unfortunately, his little team-up with Beyonce at the half-way point played more like a Broadway review. What is this? The Tony’s? When he emphatically exclaimed “The musical is back!” I kind of slumped back in my seat and said “Not likely.”
I mean, the thing just went on and on! Meanwhile, performances of the Best Song nominees only get 90 seconds a piece! ACTUAL NOMINEES get the bum’s rush for this crap. Bad move.
I thought the Pineapple Express parody with Seth Rogen and James Franco was hilarious. Probably the highlight of the night (no pun). If this doesn’t tell James Franco to abandon the James Dean posturing and aggressively pursue comedy full-time, I won’t know what will.
I thought Ben Stiller’s riff on Joaquin Phoenix was stupid, disrespectful and past it’s expatriation date. Wandering around stage while the nominees for Best Cinematography were being read? C’mon, It’s not The MTV Movie Awards.
The biggest surprise of the night? Sean Penn winning Best Actor over Mickey Rourke – who I assumed was a lock. You can’t really be unhappy with the outcome, though. Penn’s a great actor and Rourke brought his career back from the dead. Everyone wins.
As far as my Oscar ballot looked at the end of the night, I was 12 for 12. I could have done a lot better, but I had two strikes against me:
I went out a limb and picked Viola Davis for Best Supporting Actress and Michael Shannon for Best Supporting Actor under the assumption that Hollywood was going to take the opportunity to promote new talent. Also, both performances were very brief in their respective films and I had this nagging feeling that if they were that good in such a limited amount of time (against acting heavyweights like Meryl Streep and Kate Winslet) they deserved to win.
Instead the awards went to Penelope Cruz and Heath Ledger, respectively — both of whom odds makers were already behind.
I don’t know what to say about Ledger’s win except I guess I lost the faith on that one. Is it really a “supporting” performance, though? He pretty much owned The Dark Knight from the minute he stepped on screen. He certainly didn’t “support” Christian Bale. He blew right past him. For the sake of argument, do you think he would have won were he still alive? Would he even have been nominated? Just questioning it, that’s all.
Because here’s the thing: The Dark Knight was the second most nominated film last night with eight. All of them except Ledger were in technical categories and they were shut out in all of them except Sound Editing.
Clearly the Oscars has no love for comic book movies. Not even those that gross $1 billion at the box office world wide. So what made Ledger’s turn as the Joker such a prominent standout? Again, I’m just spit-ballin’ here.
The Dark Knight being shut out of the technical categories was the second deficiency in my Oscar ballot. I figured if they weren’t going to be recognized for anything else, voters would acknowledge the economic achievement by handing the film trophies in the technical categories. So much for that.
For the full list of nominees and winners, you can access them here.
At any rate, we’ll be talking about the Oscar winners and losers tonight on The Triple Feature and we’ll find out how my Oscar ballot stacked up against Gordon and Joe’s. There’s a lot at stake. The two with the lowest number of correct guesses have to produce guest comics for the winner. I could be in for some extra work this week! You’ll have to tune in tonight at 9:00 PM CST to hear if I lost!
In the meantime, what did you think about last night’s show? What moments stood out for you? Were there any shocks? What was your favorite moment? What was your least favorite moment? Leave your comments below!